This is a little bit behind but we'll try to get caught up. We do have a very large agenda. I mean I'm sure you guys have seen that a couple of other organizations are on our agenda. It was I mean to me if we're going to be the Health and Safety Committee we need to make sure and that we are discussing and working with all of our agencies in the county that provide public safety for our county. So as long as it's good with you guys we're going to make sure and moving forward just we're getting updated by these other organizations so we can all be on the same page. But before we get too far into it I was going to see if Mr. Devlin would mind leading us in prayer. Lord we just thank you so much for this day and we thank you for the blessings of living in this country and in this community and if I would thank you for this opportunity to meet in this open form Heavenly Father in a very public way so that we can discuss all the things that are so critical for us as citizens here. We thank you so much for those who protect and serve us in so many different capacities and we'll discuss that tonight with all those different folks. We love them. We thank you for their service and their sacrifice and that their families make on our behalf. We pray that you bless us as we go through this meeting as we discuss these things in Jesus name. Amen. Victor? We will go ahead sir. For the record, you're doing a roll call. That was my next. I'm sorry, I thought you were going to proceed. No, no, no. I want to get the prayer through first. But thank you Mr. Devlin. Val, if you don't mind, if you can do a roll call please. Yes. Shelly Firinato. Yeah. Jonathan LaCoste. Here. Bob Pope. Nick Bentley. Here. Ethan Hutchins. Here. Tony Estrey. Here. Gavin Grapes. Here. Gary. Steve Giannakas. Here. Mr. Jordan. Here. Zach Binley. Here. Devin Peeker. Here. Ron Rogers. Here. Jim Tanner. Here. Steve Englund. Here. Alright, thank you ma'am. Moving on, we have an approval of agenda. You guys got the agenda in front of you. I will entertain a motion to get this approved. Motion by Tony, seconded by Mr. Jonathan. Any discussion on the agenda? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Alright. Public comment period. I don't think anybody...we don't have anything? We don't have a sign up sheet. Okay. Alright. Adoption of minutes from the previous meeting on October 5th. We had sent those out last week. Hopefully you all had a chance to take a look through those, peruse through those. We'll go ahead and entertain a motion to get those approved. Motion approved. Motion made by Mr. Kanakis, seconded by Mr. Dusty. Any discussion on the minutes? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Alright, we'll move right into our monthly reports from our department heads. We'll start out with our Hemming County Maintenance and Properties. Anybody got anything? Nope. Alright, good to go. We'll move on to Emergency Communications 9-1-1, Ms. April. We'd like to come up and just give a brief overview on the organizational change that 9-1-1 will be going through. No, you take your time. I have previously spoken with Jim as Wellington County Mayor and it came to my attention that this has not been passed on to anybody in the county and the city has passed a resolution that they have given us as the 9-1-1 board authority to move forward in the planning process of absorbing dispatch. Currently as it sits, dispatch is governed under the city. The county pays 50% of that total budget cost and city pays 50% of that total budget cost but the county does not get a say so or authority over anything that is related to dispatch which has been an issue in the past and as a board we feel like all of the entities that we dispatch for, that we support, that we monitor, sit on that board and it would be in everybody's best interest for dispatch to be under the 9-1-1 board. I know in the past this has been brought up but it has never been fruitful. My hope is that we can make that change and be successful in it and nothing has been passed, nothing has been voted on, other than the city has given us authority to move forward in the planning process. Tomorrow night at our 9-1-1 meeting we will be discussing potential budgets so that's why I wanted to come before everybody tonight so that you guys were on the same page as everybody else. So I feel like that's very important and if y'all wanted to come tomorrow night y'all are more than welcome. Everyone's welcome. Do y'all have any questions going forward? Has everybody had a chance to look at the information I gave Jim? And this is a very big thing. Going from the town of Centerville running 9-1-1 operations and communications for the county and city, it will actually be all under the 9-1-1 board and their organization. So it will be separate from the city and so even though that operations as far as what the guys are getting won't change and they're constantly working on communications there is going to be a definite change in that organizational structure. I just want to say that in not just absorbing everything the process is already moving right now to move dispatch from its location now to the 9-1-1 building. We're doing a lot of remodeling to the entire facility right now and that is moving forward so it's moving forward to get all the dispatchers moved over there. It's premise that if we can get this done this will put April with the authority over that and the 9-1-1 board. Thank you sir. So will the county still have to pitch in the 50% board? Correct. Every department will have to pay their portion based on the call volume in their department. And the 9-1-1 board is a state board. Correct. So the county still won't have direct say on anything just the way it is now with the city. The city only has control over it. Correct. But it wouldn't change a whole lot for us on this side of things. You would have if there was a dispute or issue with a specific entity that we dispatch for or a budgetary issue that's where we can come together from our board in here with you guys and fix that dispute. But as far as disciplinary issues structure issues those can be brought before our board and then the board with several county entities can make those decisions. It's more streamlined So that's what gives us a little bit more of the power of having people on the board. Currently you don't have anything. Ok. I got you. And Tony that board is set by the mayor. Yes. So we have 9 members we have several public seats and then those department heads are every 4 years. So if those department heads stay the same then those members will stay the same all the time. The public members are restructured every 2 to 4 years. So I guess the next question I have is if we pay 50% and 9-1-1 takes over their pay structure changes, benefits changes, we're already locked into a number, correct? Correct. So that may change Correct. In the following budget year it may increase Yes sir. Our percentage that we have to pay. Ok. Alright. Mr. Jones. I'd like Tony to ask my question and her answer would be yes. Do you have any estimate of the financial impact on the county at that place? We have not structured a budget or voted on a budget at this time. I cannot answer that at the moment. That would be the next conversation after our next board meeting. So that's up for this meeting's agenda. If anybody would love to come they're more than welcome. But that will be discussed at this next meeting. And I will remind that the mayor's appointee is Ryan who is on the committee as well. Sorry, last one I promise. If we take over this, do we cover 50% of the salary only or the salary and the benefits? Your 50% would go towards salary and benefits. Ok. Where the non-employment board currently contributes almost $420,000 to dispatch every year. That comes out of our state budget so we would be contributing as well and Humphreys County recently they came down to discuss with us they're on that same structure. They've had great benefits from it. Everybody's more happy they have more say in what's going on. It's more streamlined. Less issues as far as leadership and disputes go. Which I know is an ongoing problem that I'm trying to solve. So, I feel like there's enough of us here that care about this board in a good way. Positive way. And that would be a possibility. Director Wilkerson also will make sure since Ryan's on that committee that he will get those minutes and then Ryan's gonna send them to Ms. Christie so that she can get them out to us too. So if we can't make it tomorrow night we'll be able to at least see what's being discussed. What's the timing on the changeover? Would we do that with the fiscal year? So, this past July I went before the city. And so because I wanted it to kind of flow with our calendar years I gave them a two year time frame. So we're about a year and a half into it. We are about 80% done with our construction in order to get dispatch across the street even before we change hands or structure of any kind. They will at least be in the new building and being taken care of that way. I mean from a financial impact though really. If you have a meeting tomorrow night and a budget is agreed when would that I would go before the next commission meeting with that data. That's how soon. And then the negotiations begin from there. It's not going to be tomorrow. It's not going to be six months from now or a year from now. So we're looking at about a year and a half out. And if we need to push that further we can. But my goal is to get them over pronto no matter what. But the logistics of ownership that can be pushed out a little bit if we have to do that. To make sure everybody is happy and everything is the way that it needs to be. So it sounds like the financial impact will happen likely in this fiscal year that we're in right now. That's what it sounds like to me. My estimate is that come July of next year we should have things finalized and planned for next fiscal year. Yes sir. No sir. That's unfair to everybody. That's why I was trying to understand that. There's pros and cons for everybody. That's the reality of it unfortunately. Any other questions for Ms. Abram? Alright. Thank you Ms. Abram. Thank you. I appreciate that. Moving on to Hemming County EMS. Director Woodall. Good evening everyone. Hopefully you got your packets. Financial report. 278 runs. We charged out $189,376.79. Collected $74,982.65. Myself and Beth did a little research on why the collections were down. We had not. It was Medicare and Medicaid end of year. So they were not paying anything for the last two months. But now they have started getting in. That will come up. So that is the financial report. Any questions? Motion to accept the financial report. Motion made to accept by Mr. August. Seconded by Mr. Crickard. Any other questions? Roll call vote. Shelly Yes. Jonathan Yes. Nick Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Well I would like this body to approve for us to move truck 32. It is a 2018 Ford ambulance. The VIN number and everything should be in your packet. We would like to move it to surplus so we can sell it. We replaced it with the brand new truck. Motion made by Mr. Esther. Seconded by Mr. Crickard. Any further discussion? Roll call vote. Shelly Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Last but not least , we have requested the reimbursement for the $300,000. The ambulance should be in her hands so we can reimpurse it. Thank you all. Next up is the EMA Director Tibbs. I have one. Everything I have should be in the report that was sent out. I do have a couple things I need to kind of run back through. First thing, on the very first part of it, it says Hickman County EMA responds to 16 calls. So there has been a little bit, and I want to explain this, EMA responds first agency. These are calls that we respond to. Typically or usually it's because either we're short-staffed, short-handed in some area, whether it be, you know, in VMS, in soil or truck, or in fire, there's not enough volunteer responders. That's when we go in and pick up and respond. We're not a first-in agency. So I just wanted to clarify that. So those were 16 calls that we felt like for whatever the reason may be, whether it be short-handed, they needed extra help, whatever it may be, we run those calls. That's why you see us running those calls. We did go to a search in Lewis County for the missing person. We were asked to make that county. We went over and done that. We actually had a second search for another missing man on October the 30th. So those are a couple of things that I wanted to bring out. We are still in the flood plain management plan. I met with the gentleman again today. We rode through town, took another couple of site visits on some things. We are having a public, open public meeting. It's going to be at Cottonwood Church of Christ. It's going to be November the 16th at 6 p.m. We would like if y'all could help spread that word with us so we can get as much public comment that we can there during that. Current anticipated funding, right now we're still in the contract process. We're in what they call phase two of 20 with the state when it comes to the money back from Winterstone and Fern. We are in this with Hickman and Town of Centerville. Hickman County is looking, the total number combined right now is $1,133,129.40. Those numbers still change a little bit as we go because we're still collecting data and we're still putting that in. That's kind of where we're sitting at currently. We're in phase two of 20. Hopefully we'll start seeing some of that reimbursement coming in soon. In addition to that, the generators, I had a question about those. Right now, the process... You're supposed to get a contract this week that the mayor will sign. Should be this week. Y'all know how our state sometimes is a little slow, sometimes they speed up. Hopefully this week we will get a contract for the mayor to sign on that. I don't know.
Finance has already got the budget, or not the budget, but the bids, so sim bids should be done this week? No, they're just going to be in paper this week. They'll run for two weeks and then they'll be in November. So, with all that bids in, we're hoping that we can start putting generators on the ground before we get increment weather. We've been working really hard on that. And the last note that I have is, I do want to speak just a little bit on the Edmond County Rescue Squad. I was sent in as interim chief to try to see where we were at with that department and how we could aid them, how we could help them. There was a question asked by this committee about timelines and all of those things at the last meeting. I will be stepping down in December from that appointment. I will no longer be their interim chief. So, what I'm trying to get across to this body, this committee, is currently there is no one qualified right now. There may be someone where we're searching diligently right now to try to find that person or what we're going to do with that agency. So, all that in a nutshell means when I step down in December, they will no longer have a chief, meaning that there is possibilities that they would forfeit their fire district, and that's about 60% of our county. The mayor and I have been discussing this a little bit. There are plans to try to help recover some of that and move forward, but I want this body to understand the impact that that could cause. You've got 60%. That's not just a fire call. This is, if there's a wreck on the side of the road in that fire district or if this is a medical call that we need lift assist help with, if they close, 60% of this county does not have that ability any longer. So, just know that that could be facing us in December. Closure in December? No, no. There is a meeting. I'm going to be stepping down as interim chief. The way the process works is that if someone wants to be the chief of that department, first of all, they have to meet the resolution that's met in this county. They have to meet that standard of being the chief. That name is then brought to the mayor, and then the mayor has to appoint that position for the state fire marshal's office and then all the paperwork changes over. If they don't appoint someone, they lose their FDID number, which means they're no longer a fire department and we don't have a fire district. And then the county commission has to decide how they're going to move forward in covering that district, which may impact this county. We kind of need to know a timeline on that. Do we not? The meeting is the second week of December. I was told that I needed to step down. Well, I was going to say, do we have a meeting in November? Do we meet in November? This is November. This is. I meant, do we have a meeting in December? The commission. The county commission is up to the chairman. So we will. We'll go ahead and say it now. It's too important of a thing to not have a health and safety meeting in December. So we will have a meeting in December. I'm hoping maybe by the full court there's even more discussion. So Director Tibbs, the mayor, there's a lot of discussions in what we're going to have to do in getting this covered, especially those of you in District 1 and District 5 for sure would have nothing, right? But they also touch a few of the other districts, too, to help. The other departments, there's discussions going to be had there. We have members of our fire association here on how they can help be able to provide coverage while there's a gap. There's other discussions of things going on in the Shady Grove area of other possibilities of another department step. There's a whole lot of discussion of stuff that's being had, and they're being had just about every day. So I say that to say, Tony is correct, having that timeline is very important, but we will absolutely have something at least a lot more accurate on the December meeting that we have here. The board is going to meet the first week in December. The body meets the second week of December, which is when they do their voting, and then we will know out of that meeting whether there's someone who has to stop and try to become chief or if the district is so large it's broken the three quadrants already. It may be that one quadrant stays up and running, one may shut down. I don't know what's going to happen just yet. Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Whenever you're done. That's just fire, or is that rescue, is that extrication, is that first responders, is that the entire department? That's putting a lock on the doors. That means no department members can respond even at the train level, first responders, nothing? I don't know how the state, I don't know how that works with running a department without a chief. Those are questions I still don't have answers for. So maybe we've got to extrication way out. Pine, you talking about? Maybe I'm overthinking, maybe I'm getting a little too excited if that happens, especially when I'm talking about emergency services because that's what I grew up in here. I'm going to tell you, I have held people in my arms that have died waiting on extrication to get there. And if this makes that worse for the citizens in our county and those that are traveling through our county, I think that everything being up in the air of possibilities is not going to be good for anybody, including our family members sitting around this table right here. Just so you understand, this is not just a trivial thing that is being discussed here. This is devastating. Just so everybody understands the ramifications. I get a little emotional trying not to, but when you need them, it is paramount that they be there. And I'm just going to tell you, it's life and death. This is not something to play with. It's something we need to be really serious about and get our facts right and our timelines down to a T. Just my opinion. Can we have, between EMA and the Fire Association, by the time the December meeting comes, I know we won't have the board meeting of the squad, but would there be any way to have a plan of coverage if the worst was to happen, worst case scenario? I have spoken very briefly with the Fire Association. I've spoken a little bit with the mayor. I've spoken with you about this. There are plans to try to help cover what we're about to come into, but nothing finalized. That's where we're at. So, worst case scenario, if this does happen, what would happen with all of those assets that are in various spots of the county? Would the existing Fire Association entities of their own, would they be able to utilize those in any way? The board would still be active, and the board would have the decisions on how that equipment and everything is dispersed out. By the time the charter reads correctly, they would go back to the county in which they serve. So, there's still some things up in the air about that as well. How that will look. Is there someone who could step into this position who may not have all the qualifications just yet, but could be put in the position and get the qualifications over a period of time? There is a 12-month grace period for someone to be able to come in and take over, and they'll have 12 months to be able to get the training that is required. You don't have to name names, but do you have one or two in mind that could possibly meet that? Two that are close, but they said they're not interested. I've got a two-part question. Besides the rescue squad, how many other volunteer fire departments are there in the county? There's Coble Fire, Puzzleville Fire, East Fire, and then within the city is City Fire. Three departments. Okay, so just for taking seriously what Tony is talking about, would this possibility like the squad absorb or be taken, could they be upheld under any of those other fire departments? So, again, that will be up to the association. The chiefs will get together and discuss what possibilities we could do. Obviously, we'll try to do the best we can to cover those districts while something is being done. Right, so I guess, not to interrupt, just like we have one of the other fire chiefs, like an interim fire chief, step under to take over that position of squad that's under the other fire departments. That's what I've been doing for the last year. This may be a question that most everybody knows the answer to, but I don't. How did we get here, and why are we just now here by the county commission? Or maybe it's been discussed with some commissioners, but I have not heard. I mean, just to be quite honest and truthful with you, 20 years of poor decision making, I think that's how we got here. On the departments. On the last few chiefs. And, you know, as far as the perplexity of why we're here now is because of the changing of how, you know, money drives everything. And with fire, if you can't get a grant, you have to work strongly off of donations and whatever the county gives you. And with that being said, grants nowadays, the requirements are more extraneous than what they used to be. It's not just, you know, show up, shake your hand, and now I've got 20 people on a department, I can go receive a grant. Now they're asking for credentials in order to be able to receive certain grants. And those grants are not guaranteed money. Those grants, you hope you get it. And when you're looking at a department that covers 60%, that's got four stations, that's got, you know, multiple apparatuses running around, it takes a lot of dollars and cents to get those trucks up and running and keep them going. And the equipment, equipment costs, the equipment's getting older, it's harder to maintain it. All the costs associated with keeping the buildings up and running, I mean, I could go on for days. But, I mean, there's some real poor planning with the last existing chiefs. And, I mean, I would say that if they were standing here. And why are we just not hearing about it? Volunteers. The second part of the question, why are we just not hearing about it? I've spoken to one, two, three, four in this room. Okay. Well, there's 14 commissioners, so, yeah. I didn't know about it until about three months ago myself, personally, when there was, I got a, I received a phone call, there was some investigations that were going on that was a lot to me as well. And that's when I started speaking with the Governor-Mayor. So, when does this grace period start? Like, when you step down? Or is it, like, starting now? What? The 12-month grace period you mentioned. From the time they throw their name in the hat. Gotcha. Yep. They got 12 months. Any of y'all want to be a fire chief? Time to be one. Mr. Randall. How did we get involved so deep into a voluntary organization that we'd get into a mandatory situation now? Can you clarify that a little bit? Well, I mean, that was a voluntary organization that was doing its own thing for all these years, and now it's like it's mandatory stuff that's got to be done and it was running strong for a while. In 2018, there was a resolution passed by this county commission. Not y'all, but the county commission. In 2018, they said there was a requirement or statute that had to be met in order to receive your FDID number, in order to receive tax dollars, all those things. So, we started really hammering down on making sure that those trainings were being done so we could track the tax dollars that were actually being spent. Then, it was real quick, quickly evident that their training was not being done. There were things that was not being done. When I started pushing the issue, along with the Fire Chiefs Association, to say, step up to the plate, require these trainings, these trainings are required, you have to do them, the current chief at the time stepped down and said he was done, walked out. Technically, those doors could have locked then, but then the mayor and I spoke, they said we'll try this as an interim, pick another chief from another department to step in and try to help, see where we can help them grow. We've been doing that for about a year. As a matter of fact, December will be here. So, you said the resolution was passed by the court to do that? So, the only thing that could have been done is that took away from the Fire Chiefs Association thing and let the TARS go back, let the organization go back to the TARS. You wouldn't have the money you're talking about. Then, you don't have the fire department. But, they're volunteering. I mean, that's... You can't run fire calls without fire training. It's a life safety issue. You don't want to put someone in a burning fire that's never had any fire training. The resolution was minimal. It was actually, the requirement is an ICS 100, 700, 16-hour introduction to fire, and then, within one year, you have to have 64-hour training and a lot of burn training in order to be able to be classified on the fire department. And, I remind you, all those classes are paid for by this county. Commissioner Duggan. Sorry. Yes, I agree with you. The opportunity has been there. They just haven't been fulfilling those obligations. I think, Pete, I was the only one here when that resolution was in here now. It was passed, and I believe that was at the request of the Fire Chiefs Association to comply with some state guidelines. Is that not correct? That is correct. So, it's not something we just pulled out there and we're helping them? No, this was a state requirement that was coming down, and that goes back to the whole, if you want to be able to apply for a grant, you have to meet these standards according to the FAP. Right, okay. So, it wasn't mandatory, though? Just to be clear. I mean, if you want to be a fire department with an FDID number, it is mandatory that you get this grant. So, for clarification, by the State of Tennessee, in order for you to respond as a fire department, you have to have an FDID number. And, one of the things that the requirements, what the state will do, like with anything else, and not with the federal government, is they'll say, you will follow these standards, or we can't make you follow the standards, but if you don't follow the standards, you're not going to get the funding, or you won't have your FDID number, or you won't. So, it takes away their ability to be able to do the job that they need to do. And so, that's just where that originated from at the time. But, at the end of the day, our fire departments around the county, Coble, East Hickman, Pleasantville, all started, we do not have a county fire department. We've never had a county fire department. Ever, ever, ever, ever, never, never. These were all organizations, private, non-profit organizations, that was raised up. The communities raised up, because they said, hey, we want a fire department. They was able to get it started. The county assisted that. They were able to get their own funding. And then, the county supplemented that to be able to help, because it costs money to run a fire department. And they were providing a county service. So, it's just a situation where, if we've got to think of it as a commission, our public safety, our fire association, our Hennepin County Mayor's office, are all having these discussions and say, what's this going to look like? If we care about our citizens and we love our citizens, then how are we going to protect them with the current situation in the system that's in place? How are we going to be able to do that? How many people, roughly, are part of this? Currently on the roster, trained, 25. How many of those actively respond to calls regularly? You're talking about Monday through Friday during work hours? Three. Three. And that's if I can play it myself. So, just to keep the meeting going, the reason why people wanted to come and talk tonight is saying, okay, guys, this is where we at. We might not like it, that we feel like it was late, but it's still here. This is something that we're going to have to look at and talk about and rely on these guys to be able to come up with a plan to be able to help fill these needs. Because like Tony said, and I'm with Tony 100% on this,
It's not just fire calls. I mean, we don't have a lot of house fires. I mean, we just don't. We do have brush fires when it's that time of year, but we have more wrecks. We have more medical calls. We have a lot of the stuff, specialized rescue that these guys have to go to, to be able to help our citizens. We rely on them to cut our costs on all of our other county departments. I mean, it's facts are facts. That's why we only have three ambulances, that's all we could afford. But we rely on them to respond as first responders, extrication, all those things. When you see that go away in a week, you'll have people calling the screen. I'm assuring you right now, as commissioners, you've probably never given more phone calls. And what we're gonna go through if this doesn't go right. All right, Commissioner Gratz. Solutions here, we need a candidate, and we need one month. Is that what we're gonna say? I need a candidate with more training. And then funding, obviously, as time progresses. Or if you're willing to give the training. Department-wide needs training. But the person taking over that department, yes, they're gonna have to have some specialized training for the chief. And again, I don't know what the guidance is at the state level as to what that chief is required to have. I know that as a standard, we look at it in the county. We have a standard as far as what our chiefs carry, what we hold, as far as training goes. But, I mean, maybe some of them will put their name in the hat. We'll be looking at it. It's in that resolution, I think. I would highly recommend commissioners getting involved with making the fire association meetings. Do y'all have one planned yet for this year? My president just went to the bathroom. There is one scheduled. We usually meet quarterly. Actually, I was on the phone with the president of the Fire Chiefs Association. We did discuss this at length a little bit. And we're planning on trying to do some Zoom meetings, maybe even weekly right now, until we can kind of get a game plan together. That we can have something to present to the county mayor and this commission before the second week of December. And association meetings meet in the evening. So whenever that comes, Pete will give it to us. We'll make sure and get it out there so that those of us that can get there can get there and see how this plays out. Do we have any chiefs' association meetings scheduled? Okay. Good. So nobody gets paid for anything? No, it's all on us. Everything is strictly volunteer. It's all volunteer-based. Including a lot of my hours. I wasn't charging hours to go out and be their interim chief for just the past year. The person that filled this role is doing it out of a service heart. Any other questions for Director Pitts? Thank you. All right. So moving forward, you can see there's a lot of discussion that has to be made. I do have the fire chief's association on here and Chief Baxter is here. If you'd like to come up and just give a rundown of- Absolutely. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. You may find some of the things I speak of are actually gonna piggyback on what Mr. Tibbs just said. I saw some interesting looks on a lot of faces and it looks like a lot of concern. Would that be true? So I'll be completely blunt. When I stood before the budget committee this past go-around, I made the comment, historically, one of the items that you see on your list in the packet there is a proposal for our ask for the fire association issue. Now, one of the comments that I made during my presentation was our original ask was 660, I dropped it to 475,000, and I made the comment that if we go below that, this county may experience a reduction in services, and unfortunately, not one person asked me what that meant. We just saw it with what Mr. Tibbs just said, okay? So I would like to go into more detail. I'm actually, I wanna compliment all of you because the questions you're asking are very real and valid questions of concern. And I wanna answer those questions if I can, and if I may clarify what Mr. Tibbs said here. The first item I mentioned was adopting a resolution regarding fire training, okay? And I misspoke on that just a little bit. I went back and reviewed resolution 1815, and I have to commend the fire chiefs and the association that was present at that time. Mr. Tanner, I believe you were involved with it. Understand there are several counties in the state of Tennessee that did not require minimum firefighter training, okay? It's because of their population density and things like that. Now think of that for a second. You're sending people that are unpaid with families, children, wives into a burning buildings with zero training. How many of you wanna volunteer to do that, right? But you're also putting the care and custody of the citizens of this county in the hands of people that can get a wild hair, jump on a fire truck, and respond to a fire truck crash all their life. That is not a wise decision, agreed? But 70% of the firefighters in this great United States that we live in are volunteers, oddly enough. Well, the people back in, the commissioners that existed, you sir, you were involved with it, realized that they wanted better for the citizens of Hickman County. That is the reason that that resolution was adopted. So the first item that I mentioned was a clarification of what that means for you as commissioners who make financial decisions and also for the citizens of the community. As Hickman County, we did not have to adopt training standards according to the state, but we did, and that's wonderful. So I guess what I'm asking is a clarification and an understanding of what that involves. That technically, we didn't have to be trained firefighters, but we are. And what that means is people are volunteering their time. Chief Lovett back there and his crew have done an amazing job working with EMA as well to develop our training programs and things. It's a 16 hour introduction to firefighters, 64 hour. Then you have to go through live burn at TFACA. There's also hazmat training, there's extra cake. There's all these trainings that exist that our firefighters go through as volunteers, and it is a massive cost savings to the county, a massive reduction in liability. Imagine if a firefighter dies in a house fire responding to a county emergency call and he has no training, what kind of liability does that present to this county? At least we can say we adopted the resolution, they are trained and they are qualified to respond in those emergencies, right? So that's significant. So if there was an opportunity to, or if you had any questions on item number one, I'd love to answer them. As to, if you read that resolution 1815, you'll see that it references Tennessee code, but it doesn't clearly spell it out. And there's one thing that's different, it mentions an 80 hour training at TFACA. But because of the work of EMA and Chief Lovett there, that doesn't really apply anymore, and it's not really accurate. In fact, the requirement for the 16 hour and 64 is combined into a single 64, because of the work of these two gentlemen here and their instructors. It is a very efficient and effective way for us to properly train firefighters to at least be able to respond to an emergency call in approximately 30 days, right? So when you're struggling for volunteers, having that opportunity and expediency has tremendous value. And we are bringing that to the citizens of Hickman, and you're doing that as commissioners by helping us financially with your donation to the Fire Association. So for item number one, if I haven't asked, or if you have questions, a clarification of what that training is to clearly spell it out so the citizens understand the value for what they're getting in the fire service. Do you guys have any questions on number one? Yes, sir. What's the estimated total cost of all those trainings in order to get from nothing to ready to go to respond to calls? So that, honestly, I'm not privy to that, actually, please. Typically, these classes average around $5,000 per unit. We offer them once a year, and when I say per unit, so you got a 16-hour intro to fire, we're gonna offer that class. It's a little less than 5,000. The 64-hour training, which is, it takes more instructors, more time. That's usually around $5,000 for that class. The EMR class is around $7,600. So, I mean, you're looking at an average between 3,000 and 10,000 per class. And so, like, if you were trying to quantify that down to a per person rate. The state typically doesn't want you to go over 15 person per class. We're able to push that a little bit, and I could actually. Chief Lovett, if you want to finish this, this whole time he's probably $2,500 per person. So, if I might quantify the value of that, if I might. Let's consider if we were to send them to the state for TFACA, and we didn't have this element that we have here. You could nearly put a tenfold price on it, okay? And the other thing we have to consider is essentially the reduction in salary that a volunteer firefighter brings to the game. And Mr. Esri there had mentioned, when Mr. Tibbs was speaking about other things that the fire service and the departments do for the county as a cost saving mechanism. The reality of it is, I would venture to say 65, 70% of our calls are medical relief in support of EMS. Sheriff, he'll attest. But we do things, and I want you to understand, you have people that are heads of departments that are working very closely together, and you don't get to hear about it. I'm sure the sheriff will explain to you. He and I met a couple years ago, and I said, look, Sheriff, I get it. I can't be here all day doing traffic control. I need you boys to help me, okay? Get me off this scene as quickly as you can. Y'all get to write the tickets, I put out the fires. But here's what happens in return. He helped me tremendously, but if he has an officer available, he sends them straight to a fire call. And we've had discussions with his officers. While we're en route to that fire, they can tell us if smoke is showing. They can tell us if someone's in the house. And that brings tremendous value to us because we know what assets to send, what mutual aid to call, neighboring counties, all that. So don't think of each of us as department heads are not working closely together to maximize our efficiency and reduce our expenses as much as possible. We're all helping each other out. And I think that number one is a key part of understanding the training you get and how all of us are working together to bring that value to the county. So any other questions on number one? Yes, sir. So we outlined it in 1815, but you're asking us to clarify what that says? It's actual clarification of what Tennessee refers to and a slight modification to that reference where it says an 80 hour class at TFACA, which is what the state references. Well, we have built in our own cost saving mechanism for that training. So that could- That could be modified. Correct, just a modification. And I will say that I wrote 1815, so I don't mind working with these guys. That sounds like a pretty easy answer. Right, yeah, it's a simple ask. Any other questions on that? No, okay. Number two was a request for a seat at the table. And let me define what that is. We in the fire service, we are in the bad day business. That's what we do. If there's an increase in expected traffic, we need to be prepared for that. Increased traffic, increased opportunity for car accidents. If there are commercial building projects that are coming in, we need to know what hazardous materials could potentially be there, what water challenges could be there. There are so many things that are involved with the fire service that we have to prepare in advance for. And none of us can write a big fat check to buy what we need right now. So we need time to plan, to have fundraisers, to apply for grants, to do everything that we can do. So my ask on the second is not simply to be at a planning commission meeting. But when it gets to the point that we have building projects, whether it's residential, commercial, whatever, it's been approved and it's coming, to at least put us on the list of some sort of notification. And that allows us many things. Understand, there could be a new business coming, in the concrete packaging plant, for example, Tennessee Electric Motor Company. There are extreme hazardous materials that exist inside those buildings. Those buildings got built, the fire service never walked into it. It's kind of crazy, right? So what we do as part of our training is pre-incident planning, correct? Correct? We use it as an opportunity to take not only our new firefighters, but also our seasoned ones. We work with the management staff at those businesses, we walk in. We look for any obvious hazards. No, we don't have fire code in the county, but we do have awareness, if you will. So we work with those business owners. Certain placards, certain things they should do, escape plans, things like that. But what we also do in our response software, we have the ability to put in incident plans. So if there's a fire at XYZ Company, we can know in advance the chemicals that are there, the exit routes, how many employees they have, things like that. So it's a mechanism to save lives, quite honestly. So my ask with that would be, when building projects are approved, and we know what is coming for certain, would be to have a presence and a notification in some way so the fire service can prepare to adequately protect those people, fair enough? And I can tell you, on the Planning and Zoning Committee, me and Mr. Graves and Mr. Ethan, we can definitely make sure from that standpoint, we can communicate that as that's moving forward and make sure that you guys are made aware, when we're made aware. Perfect, thank you for that. Number three was a preemptive of what may become our ask for the fire service issue. So historically, we had asked for somewhere around 475. The ask last year, as Mr. Giannakos will remember, was technically on paper, it was 660, we reduced it to kind of the 475 at the last minute. And I had mentioned somewhere around 300,000 this year, okay, would be what we believe to be a reasonable ask for various different reasons. I believe it to be a fair and reasonable compromise, if you will. We all are experiencing rising costs with everything. We are, our medical calls are increasing. All of us are bringing in also more medical people as well. I mean, how many do you have now, Pete Lovett? 20 plus. 20 plus, and various levels of, between paramedics to advanced EMTs, working your way down to EMRs. I have, I think it's 12 or 13, I sent you those numbers earlier. You've got a few as well. And so we're, a massive majority of our calls are also assisting EMS as well. And that's very low cost relative to what other things could be. The second thing is I'll go ahead and advise you. I know there's a lot of consideration with the new commission here about some potential growth in certain areas. Well, ISO is back. How many of you are familiar with ISO and what it is? Okay, ISO is back. They're coming through again. I think the last time they were here was in 2020, is that right, 2020? Well, they're back. I'm actually meeting at my department tomorrow. Tomorrow morning, I've already met with them twice. And ISO, if you're not familiar, they rate your fire departments on various different critical things. Now, I will tell you, as you prepare, 50% of your score is relative to what? Hydrants, right? That's 50% of your score. The rest is how well you run your fire department. Well, actually about 10% is your dispatch, efficiency of your dispatch. And then the rest is how good you run your fire department. The better your ISO score will save commercial and residential insurance considerably. So to give you a difference, to give you a scale, if you will, University of Tennessee back in 2023, they did a study on savings for insurance policies relative to your ISO score, okay? ISO scores are down on the level of 1 to 10. 1 is the absolute near unachievable best. We would have to have hundreds of millions of dollars kind of budget to achieve a class one. Class 10 is you're not even rated, okay? If a department is a class five, in the middle, as a volunteer department, you're in approximately the top five percentile in the country for a volunteer fire department. To be rated a five is incredible. A six is pretty darn good too for a volunteer fire department, okay? So now that you understand the scale, if you have a department that's rated a ten versus a department that's rated a five, according to University of Tennessee, approximately 46% savings in homeowners and commercial insurance, massive.
And the difference between a 6 and a 5 is not that much, only a few percent. To get to a 4 is another 15% in savings. But the cost to a community of going from a 5 to a 4 is astronomical and near unachievable for a volunteer fire department in a financially constrained area, if that makes sense. So part of my ask is a compromise, okay, from that original ask is a compromise because now that ISO is here and you as a commissioner are considering potential growth in certain areas, paying attention to ISO scores and bringing in these possibly commercial developments and businesses and things, insurance matters to them. And then unfortunately it takes money to improve your ISO score, if that makes sense. So a part of that increase that we're asking for is obvious cost increases, increase in the number of calls, and also that consideration. It is an expense. If we're going to grow a little, it costs a little bit, if that is a concern for you. So any questions on that? Any questions for Chief Baxter? What's our current score, most recent? So each department is rated individually. So for those of you that may not know, yes, we have a fire association, of course each fire department is its own 501c entity in and of itself. So they're judged based on their own merits, okay. You know, I don't know if I can put you on the spot, yeah, do you want to hear? Plasma was a 10. We've only got three fire clubs in our entire history. Okay, yeah, so let me explain that right there. Okay, so a 10 is not a representation, that is not a representation of that fire department not being run well. Let me make that very, very clear. Again, almost 60% of your score is water and dispatch. Okay, so when ISO comes in as an independent agency, they're looking at the number of fire hydrants. If you've only got one or two fire hydrants, you're a 10. I mean, that's it. So if you're better than a 10 with virtually no hydrants, that's a heck of a achievement in and of itself. So I just wanted to be clear on that. Don't look at it as a A through F kind of gradient type thing. You're in the same boat, aren't you? Yeah, we actually haven't been ordered, so we haven't explored it at all. Okay, so East is a 5. East Aikman is a 5. We're right in the middle of the 5 line. So we're going to find out here in probably about four months if that's going to change. I will tell you in my meetings with ISO, their attempt is to... They tend to favor insurance companies, is the reality of it. So if they can make it tougher for you to obtain a score, that saves the insurance company's money because they're not having to give the additional discounts. So if I may, I'll give you one example. One of their new standards is what they call a hold water standard. Okay, to have a hold water standard, you have to be able to flow 3,000 gallons a minute for two hours consistently without interruption. If we flow 3,000 gallons a minute out of this county, that's almost what our intake is for the county in a day, 3,000 gallons a minute. We have some hydrants that are here that I can hook a two and a half inch line up to and pinch it off with my hand, okay? So in other words, their goals that they're setting now are near only attainable by massive municipalities that have five hydrants putting out 150 psi through a five inch connection every 500 feet, okay? So I just want to make sure each one of you have a relative perspective on how this score works, right? So yeah, an east is a five. There's a possibility we may drop to a six because of the new standards. So I hope that answers your question. But keep in mind, to be a four as a volunteer department is near unattainable. That's very difficult. And then that's where you sit. And also too, every time you step up from a 10 to a nine to a nine to an eight, that's savings that goes to the residents that are around that department or service by that department. Mr. Gray. Yes. Oh, you may have mentioned this before. How often are the fire stations evaluated, I assume? The last time they came through, and to go off my quick memory, it was either 2020 or 2021 was the last time that east was evaluated. And it's interesting in the fire service, work gets around really quick. And ISO started making their push into Tennessee about four to five months ago. So the fire marshal's office kind of let me know that they were coming, get ready. So there's not a set date, but roughly every four to five years would be a good time. I will remind everybody that, and of course we all knew when we went to the class that we went to for the introductory into coming in the county commission. We're required by state law to have an ambulance service, right? We're required to have law enforcement. There's things we are required to have. We're not required to have a fire department. So we have to really lean heavily on our communities that have started these departments and these volunteers that come out and do that. So we do have to, you know, that is something that it's, you know, I've heard commissioners through the years, it's always a grumble. You know, you have some that really, you know, say you want to make the investment and you have some that's like, well, Jim, we just can't. And we are a county that we don't have a lot of money. So we do have some hard decisions coming up and we do have some, you know, that we're going to have to sit down and discuss on where we're, how we're going to handle fire protection for our citizens as a county or how we can support other agencies to provide fire protection. So is there any other questions for Chief Baxter? John. That ask, that budgetary ask is for the whole county. That's for all the departments in the county, correct? Correct. That would be to support all the five departments in the county. And to expand on what Mr. Tanner said there, I need to understand we call it the fire department, but understand if you remove the things that Sheriff's Office does and you remove the things that EMS does, the fire service does everything else. From your vehicle electrifications, trench rescues, cats out of trees, you name it. It's who do you call when you don't call the police or ambulance? That's what the fire service gets called for. And so there's a lot of specialty rescue equipment and training and all the things that come in with it. And as Mr. Tanner said, no, you don't have to have a fire service, but if you have a car wreck and you're trapped in your car, who are you going to call? And that's why the fire service exists. To do the things that the other agencies don't do. And also support the other fully funded agencies. And I think we do it very well. Alright, there's nothing else. Thank you, Chief Baxter, very much for your time. You're welcome, sir. Thank you all. Alright, last but certainly not least, Sheriff. Alright. Hello, hello. Over the last couple of weeks, I told you all, I have a lot. And I want to get some guys out of the way, because I know some of them may stay, some of them may not. So I want to start off, so I know that you guys have come from a long way, and probably want to go home, if you're not asleep up there. My name is Bob Bass, with TCI. He's going to be here, Jeff Box is going to be back, retired Sheriff, but he's with TCI now. And we're going to talk about what everybody loves to talk about, the jail. A couple years ago, we were dealing with a really bad overcrowding problem. And so we got put on a plan of action with TCI. We kept our certification, but we had to turn it into a form to do it every month. And what we do to try to fix this, and some different stuff. So, Mr. Bass, would you like to take over? Now, he did present this to the county commission last year. I know some of y'all have already seen this. But I also know we have a lot of new folks in here, who've done it. So he's going to hit the high points and show us where we're at now. And they all ran and said they were going to add on to that jail, right? Yeah, I don't think so, right? And that word, public safety, is going to come up again. You know, how do you value your public safety? Well, I am Bob Bass, I've been with TCI, I'm their senior. And I appreciate the help with the IT. I had a little issue at the beginning, I was worried about it. I don't do good with IT, I was born in the 1900s. So I just want to get that out of the way. I'm not crazy about it, but we got it working. Now this is a long night, and I've already seen it turn into a long night for you. So what I want to do is shorten it up. In fact, if I just need to stop and come back and we meet, just us about the jail, I'm more than willing to do that. You got a lot on your plate. I got 65 slides over here. Death by PowerPoint, right? I don't like that. I'll show you what you need to see tonight, and if we need to look at it later, we will. Let me tell you a little bit about who Tennessee Corrections is. We are the agency that inspects your jails annually. By law, we're mandated to do that to see if they meet our 450 some odd standards. We train the officers all across the state that work in county jails. More than TDOC's got. We're talking 7,000 people that we have to certify. We are your risk management. So if you're certified and you're doing things constitutionally correct, as you should be in a jail, you look better in that lawsuit, and if you go to a lawsuit, we go with you. If you don't have that certification, well, it's a big liability. There are 125 jails in the state of Tennessee operating by sheriffs. Jails and work houses. There are five currently that are not certified. For various reasons, and you know what? Money's always number one. Right at the top of the list. Distressed or stressed counties. So what we do is, we have a program that's called the County Corrections Partnership. And we lend that technical support to help a county figure out how to reduce its population, get that low-hanging fruit, what's going on in the jail, why are we overpopulated, what's going on. And I did some of that. I actually gathered this data in 24. I presented it January 29th, 25th in this very room to a different commission, but I see some faces I recognize. One. So we have to start anew. So what I would ask the mayor to do is either take this committee or however you want to do it and maybe let it act as a County Corrections Partnership. That is looked for by our agency. So you're going to see the law in a minute. And our rules are codified, those 460 of their laws. So let's get this out of the way. TCI cannot make a county build a jail. We can't make you expend a jail. We can't make you obtain certification. You can do that on your own. You say, no, we're not doing it, then you're out there. With that same scenario I just gave you where I said I would go with you to court if you're certified, I'm probably going to be the guy that subpoenas and says they're not certified. And I'm going to be on the wrong side of the courtroom. If you're certified, that means you're doing everything you can not to get yourself involved in a 1983 lawsuit, which is civil rights, right? And conditions of confinement are one of those. Now, people don't believe this when I tell them, but the Supreme Court said that. That's not what you get sued for. You want to stack them in there like firewood, go ahead. It's what happens after you do that that causes the problem. So if I can't do objective classification, in other words, put the compatibles with the non-compatibles and they get in the same cell, it's my fault, we've got a problem. So I'm going to sue you. I'm going to sue you. We've got a problem. So I want to show you quickly how we got there. Now, in the middle of all this, once we got this started, my board approved you to be certified under a plan of action. And our plan was to get CTAS to do a needs assessment for us. That's not going to cost you anything. That's free. Other states, some counties have actually paid for that. That could be a $300,000 or $400,000 price tag. You're going to get it. It doesn't cost you anything. What we're doing here tonight, that's provided by the state. I generally start these out with population statistics, and we want to talk about whether you're growing or not. And that's going to be important in a moment. You're growing. And there's a breakdown. That's right out of the U.S. Census population statistics. Anybody can get those off the internet. This is how we do this report. We pull your jail management system, that's the computer that keeps up with the charges, the inmates, and the time they've got to serve. We look at your inspection reports. It says you didn't meet the standards because of some procedural things that can be fixed. They're real simple in the overcrowding. I believe they're due back on the 19th. Now, when we come inspect a jail, we don't call you and tell you we're coming to inspect the jail. Because they might take the overcrowding inmates and put them on a school bus and ride them around the school. Y'all, it's going to be a long night's smile, okay? God wants us to do that. So, we take like a three or four month average. Now, if you don't make it, we come back in 60 days and he'll be back. The 60 days will be the 19th, I believe it is. And you're going to be in the same shape you were. You're going to have to file that plan of action and I'm going to help you do that. What has changed since last year is this. You're going to have five years to fix your problem. Up to that point, we didn't have that. So, I argued and fussed and fought. I need to get this fixed. So, you know, just talking about it doesn't fix it. I had a lot of counties that just want to talk about it. And it is not a proper thing to talk about. It gets pretty ugly. I've actually been to counties where I was roasted and I don't live here. I didn't do this and I'm not the guy to put them in there. But I got blamed for it for some reason. I know y'all wouldn't do that to me, right? Don't laugh. Somebody's glaring at me right now. This is all your fault. If counties had moved when I asked them to 10 years ago, they would have moved. They would have moved. Could have built a jail for a sake. You don't need to build a jail. This is going to probably be expansion. So, everybody just stay calm. I was here when this jail was built. I helped spec this jail out when it was built. I saw what your old jail was like. That's how long I've been around. Yeah, I've got counties that are now making the move to build jails because that's what they have to do. It's called kicking the can down the road and it just gets more and more and more expensive. You'll see a 5% inflation before you do anything here. It's 5% annual for the last 5 years in building supplies. It will go up. A jail door, still a jail door, will cost $18,000. It's a different kind of building than this courthouse. We'll do staff interviews. We'll do tours. How many of you, since you've been elected, have gone down and toured the jail? Fantastic. That's great. This was in 1924 we found out you needed my help because you can only hold 110. You've got 159. The jail wasn't designed for that. There was a population male, there was female. There was a backup, TDLC. Let me say something about TDLC. TDLC, I haven't looked in about a month, but they've got about 6,000 stuck in county jails across the state. You've got to be backup. Some jails do it to make money. I don't know how you're making money when you do that and we have those discussions. I use 43 TDLC and I'm not TDLC. I don't work for TDLC. It's costing you $54 a day to keep one and feed one and take care of them. I don't see how that math works. That math is there to offset the cost. Your sheriff is not doing that. Your sheriff is not holding state prisoners trying to put money back into the general fund. We don't count them. We don't count them. Pre-trial felons, pre-trial misdemeanors, there's your classification, there's your breakdown of that 159. Now, in full transparency, what I saw when I did this for you back on that day, it looked like a big backup in your circuit court. Thank you.
So I dig a little deeper. He's headed circuit court once a month. That judge is no longer here. I've discussed issues like this with your current circuit court judge, and I think I'm seeing a difference. You're gonna see today's numbers, and you'll see they're down a little bit. They're still up, but they're down. So we have a lot of discussion. In fact, people in the room are making phone calls. You remember that, Sheriff? You remember that. Wait a minute, what's going on here, sir? Your new circuit judge is making a difference. There's your positions, and there's your new hires. You were built in 2007. I remember it well. When I look at new hires, we draw a lot of inferences in these reports. That's like six, and that's not a lot of new hires. Now, this work's not cut out for everybody. They think they're gonna be a correctional officer, and they're about two weeks later, they go, I'm gonna do this. Takes a special kind of person to do it. I know I did it. I was a jail administrator as well. I ran in jail for six years, and TCI hired me away. I served as deputy director of TCI for six years. I retired in 24, and January, let's see, December 29th of 24, and I came back to work January 2nd in this position as a consultant. So I only work 120 days a year. I won't slow down. I'm not slowing down. It's all the sheriff's fault. This is called an incarceration rate. They're done pretty simple. They're gonna come in very important when you get ready to do a study, which I hope you do, because it tells you how big you need to be able to jail. That's per 1,000, so that's a lot of time, kind of. What you would do is go look at another county relatively your size and population, and maybe has some of the same dynamics you do, and look and see what they're doing. So to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, Williamson County is not you, right? They ain't you. They ain't where I live either. I live in Chester County. Their incarceration rate is 1%. Crime is nearly non-existent. That's what's put out by the Federal Bureau of Prisons and the federal government, talks about incarceration. We incarcerate more people than any other country on this planet, 345 per 100,000. That's what your jail looked like when I was looking at it. And I knew, just as soon as I looked at that, with my experience, that you shouldn't have 61% of your population in your jail, should be pretrial felons. That started a big conversation. Did it not? It sure did. There's a male to female ratio. When I was a kid growing up, you had one woman in jail. I'm old now, a long time ago. Women are more and more than ever being locked up. Their incarceration rate is rising, and it's more violent crimes. That was the population day I came on the 29th. These are the numbers you provide TVOC. So to give you an idea of how serious it is, you are at 150% of capacity. Look at that 166 number in August of 24. So that population changes daily. Might be 120 today, tomorrow. They may have a roundup, or a big arrest, or big drug bust, and all of a sudden, it jumps up. That's what it looked like in 23. Wasn't too bad. You're below 100. But where you wanna be is 85%. So if I have a 100 bed jail, I want 85 beds. 85 beds I'm working with, the other 15 I've always got open. Cuz I don't know what the chief deputy's gonna do Saturday night. Next thing you know, he brings 25 people in here, and I go, where are we gonna put them, right? So we can't be in selective law enforcement. We wanna protect the citizens out in the county. That's what we gotta do. You break the law, do the crime, do the time. They break this down into years after they go back so far on TDLC's report. Now, this is a report that you send to TDLC. You don't send it to me, you send it to them, and it's published. And it's called the Jail Summary Report. Anybody in this room can go look at it. Tennessee Department of Correction Jail Summary Report, you can Google it. And you can look at every jail in the state of Tennessee to see where they're at. And don't think you're by yourself, okay? You ain't. I got 14 under a plan of action that need to do something. And right now, it looks like there's about 25 jails in the state that are above 100% right now. COVID didn't help things because we started doing it in lieu of arrest. We cited people in the court. COVID's in the rear view mirror. People are coming, the courts are open back up. I was there day one when Tennessee Supreme Court met, and they laid their strategy out, and they said, we're just gonna stop having court. Right, both courts did. TDLC was cohabitating people. There's gonna be books written about this. So for two years, if you were overcrowded, we didn't bother you. We kept you under a plan with that measurable progress. When you have a plan, you have to show measurable progress. Each year, you can stay under that plan. So why five years? Well, there's obviously something gotta be done over here. Let's say it's an expansion project. You're gonna be a year in concept development. Architecture's gonna take a year, might be longer. You're gonna be almost a year in construction documents. And now comes time to do it, financing it, getting your project ready. You could be 18 months, depending on the scope of the project. So I think five years is a good number. And the legislators thought it was, too. You had a re-inspection, but came back from the first inspection. Things have gotten a little better, but not much. Population's still around 143. There's the law. No currently certified local facility shall be decertified if the local government has submitted a plan of action within 60 days of the initial annual inspection and is reasonably expected to eliminate fixed ratio efficiencies. That means enough showers, toilets, or square footage for everybody. And you wanna remain certified. So the sheriff has had to come twice, right? But I stood up there for you, and I said, we're working. It's just last year was a tough year. Y'all know how hard it is to keep committees working and people talking about the most unpopular things that we're talking about tonight? I was in the room when the legislators were talking about making that law you're talking about, and you quoted earlier, you guys from the fire department. My lord, I was in the room. They went right before me, so I was deputy director. And that was pretty amazing to hear all that. They're gonna get training, they've gotta be certified, all that stuff was talked about. I'll never forget it. This program I do is education based. So my job is to help you all understand what's going on over the jail. I want you to be fluid in it. I want you to be able to talk about it with your constituents. I'll go with you and talk to you, cuz I mean, I've done town halls. I mean, this is the most unpopular thing you can do. But it's something that has to be done, because we want our public safe. We want our children safe, and we want our streets safe. And I'll just say it, there's people that need to be in that jail. At the same time, it needs to be run properly and correctly. And let's not forget who's in our jail. Who is in your jail? It's your neighbor, it's your citizens from this town. It's irrelevant, right? And I'm not a hug-and-thug kind of guy, I'm from the old school. But one of the things people don't understand about jails is it's not full of bad people, it's full of people who make bad decisions. There is a difference. There was your circuit meeting once. I just thought that was just beyond weird. Incidents, disciplinary, jail has to have a disciplinary board. Anybody does something wrong or doesn't follow the rules or damages our jail, then we go in front of a disciplinary board and we bring sanctions against them. That's nothing. In a year, you had nine, that's an M.I. getting mad and throwing his, that's a reference I pull. When I see that, I go, we're running a jail that's, we're running it right. But that's upside down. You 24 of you booked 1,558 people, John released 1,423, that number should be reversed. That means I've got an empty, I've got empty beds. When I see those numbers, that's upside down, that's wrong. I shouldn't be releasing more than I'm locking up. You have a contract food service, you still got, it's the same company, something. But if you do any jail construction over there at the current jail, if you expand that jail, you're gonna have to look. You're gonna have to look at dry storage, cooler space, and you're gonna have to look at that kitchen to see if it'll support whatever you expand it. So when I'm working with jails and we approve your plans to build a jail, when I took over as deputy director, the director and myself, we make it a point to encourage counties to overbuild their kitchen because of an add-on. So if the kitchen isn't big enough to support that, kitchens are very, very expensive. I think a laundry service would be okay, but that would come out in a study. Your medical area is real small, you're gonna see that in a minute. That's real small, it doesn't even have an enter room to wait for inmates to sit before they come in and see the doctors and nurses. So we do accreditation. So accreditation is evidence-based programming, and you don't have a lot of space over there to do programming. But this is the way of jails today. A successful jail that manages its population and reduces that recidivism rate, they do programs. If you don't, you're gonna turn them loose, they're gonna go out and commit crimes again and come right back to the jail. So we encourage you to do that, and so the state of Tennessee pays you extra money. If you're accredited, it's $6 per state inmate more than what you normally draw. That's tier one. Tier two, 12 in the jail fills up another $6, so we can assist you with that. But basically, you just don't have a lot going on. Where somebody like Rutherford County Workhouse has over 100 programs for inmates, and recidivism rate is through the floor. They really do, and it makes an impact. What about this? When I called probation, they told me they had 200 cases. These are people that if they bob, weave, or sneeze, they're coming to jail. One case officer. Kind of busy, isn't it? Yeah, when I was here. So I can go find you. If I lay my hands on them people, I can put 850 in jail. We're not gonna fight. We're gonna look for them. We're gonna do our best. And let me say this about active criminal warrants. Some of those need to be gone. They shouldn't even be in an active file. Some of those, and you can dispose of those after so many years. So it's probably getting time to look and see. The people that are interested in doing those cases or brought those warrants don't live here anymore. And the guys that committed those crimes certainly don't live here anymore. 172 days average, that's not bad. Here's time served, though. So when I start looking at 673 days in jail, what's going on? You dig a little bit deeper. These are obviously pretrial felons, and they're going through the court system. You're gonna learn about that in a study. A study's gonna be ten times deeper than this, and I'm gonna help Jim Harp. And that's the person that'll be doing it with the study. Actually, he's gonna capture about half what I got. These are your contributory agencies. It's not just the sheriff locking people up. Probably get, how many of you get from TWRA, two or three? I didn't come fishing down here. I never bought a fishing license. No, I've got them, and I've got the old man fishing license. You know we're good from now on, right? So the county jail average is three and a half years of age for every year of operation. That's in the National Sheriff's manual. My whole industry says that. It's like dog years, right? All of a sudden, but it makes sense because every door in that building is open and closed. Every light switch in that building is turned on and off. Every toilet, every sink, the constant, 365. Do y'all have a hospital here? You do? It's probably got rooms for people that ain't even been in it in six months. You can be in it, not the jail. So let's take a real quick tour, and I'll answer your questions. I'll do the best I can. Solid part looks pretty good. It's got a gun box there. We've got a fire extinguisher in case we need it. And one of the standards is we check to see that it's up to date. There's the entrance, and there is our, and as you go through this, tell me where the inmates are. I want you to look, y'all. Everybody thinks jail's just full of people, but it's not. Not out in the open where you sit in, but that's your booking room. Could it have more booking cells, holding cells? Yeah, it could. But those are questions you get later down the road. You don't get those now. That's standing in the doorway of your medical room. Very crowded, very small. The kitchen looks pretty good. One thing the staff does, they do a pretty good job of keeping your jail clean. You own the jail, you're the county commissioner of sheriffs, just renting it four years at a time. And you're responsible for seeing that it's financed properly. All of you make it down to Murfreesboro, all you new commissioners, y'all go down there, train you good. I usually speak at that, I've spoken maybe three or four times there, but I was busy that week. I couldn't get away, they wanted me to come. Hey, that looks good. Now, we're gonna go to the next one. Now, we're gonna see the inmate behaviors, what inmates do. Them towels come blowing on the racks. Tell them not to do it, and they take them down. Five minutes later, five minutes later, they're right back up. That's water damage, well, why not? It's an older facility. See what the guys are doing with the hanging their stuff out? And we may actually have an extra bed, that guy just wants to sleep there for some reason. But there he is on the mat on the floor. Wear and tear, how did them walls get that way? Well, an inmate can tear an anvil up with a toothpick. Yeah, we got three living there. I'm not saying a lot of graffiti, though. But he's got a lot of stuff in his cell. He's violating some standards. If you're wondering why they're looking away from me, I asked them to do that so you don't see their faces. Cuz I was doing this one time, there was a county commissioner's son right there on the front row, so I don't want to embarrass anybody. Okay, I'm telling them being transparent, tell them the truth. So I seen a lot of officers locked up in here. That's your control room. At this time, I think there were a few cameras out, but I think that's been fixed. So I don't come to you with problems without saying this is what you should do about them, without doing that. This is what you should be doing. We need an inmate population person. Did we ever make a move toward that? We did, right? Good. Let's look at alternative sentencing. Let's create that position. And let's get a needs assessment. That right there just says I'm not responsible, especially for your own data, because that's where I pulled your data. And I pulled your data today. So today, it ain't as bad as it has been. It's at 123, you're going over 110. You had 5T, you'll see one local felon. Pre-trial felons, that's a number more like I think I should see, 55, not 79. That PTM stands.
or misdemeanors and the two other can be detainees or holding for somebody else. There is one local felon that means the judge gave him a felony and let him stay here 1129. That's all they're supposed to stay if they're sentenced. You're a type one facility. That's what you look like from Google Earth. You certainly have room to expand. And so there was no study done to my knowledge when this was built. I certainly wasn't asked to do one. I wasn't the inspector in this area, but I got called up here on a couple things. But my question is, studies is what's going to drive it. And we've been waiting for the opportunity. And since we were in this cycle where we had this election year that we just went through, and we're out of that now, and we have a new commission, what I'm asking you tonight is to set that committee in place. And then I get to do what I normally do, and that is the education part of it. So the County Correctional Partnership is an education-based program. So I come in and I train you on what classification is supposed to be. I help you understand what alternative citizenship is supposed to look like. I help you understand what the standards say and how they get interpreted and how they get enforced. In other words, I come and answer your questions and I do classes. And we meet as a group and we go through it. So I want you to be well-versed in what's going on with your jail. You will be back in front of TCI December 9th, Jeff, is that correct? The mayor's presence and the sheriff's presence will be requested. The board is made up of governors appointing a sheriff from 300,000 population and above, 300,000 and below. It has academia on there. So we have, is he a professor of their own university? I'm not sure if he's a PhD or not, but that's the position. And he has a county commissioner. The governor can put a county commissioner on this. We have a county commissioner who's from Warren County. So that's the board. They sit there and they hear our argument and we say to fine people of Hickman County, we're trying to do something about this old crowded jail. Please don't take our certification. And we're doing everything we can. We're looking for low-hanging fruit. We're trying to move things, move inmates out of there. And you know what, by the way, we're going to ask for a study, which you're not going to see probably for six months or so. Meanwhile, we can be meeting and talking about things we need to do over there. You do not need a new jail. But if we can't figure out how to get that population down, and I can't, and you see, we've just spent almost two years looking at it. We've made it a little impact. You're looking at expansion over there. The study will tell you how much expansion. The study will tell you what you need and if you're doing anything different or can do anything different. So it will point those things out. And I wouldn't put Jim Hart's study up against anybody. He does it nationally. He does it all over the United States. We're just lucky to have him in the state of Tennessee. He works for CFAS. He ran a family county jail. He has about 38 years experience in corrections. Marine Corps. He ran facilities for them as well. So there. I did it all as quick as I could. It was a lot. If we hadn't pushed it, I'd turn this into two hours. And I'm sure y'all got a lot of questions, and maybe we can get some of them tonight. But I need your help. The sheriff needs your help. We need a committee put together, and we need your agreement to move forward with this study. And in December, we're going to get you certified again. We have jails that have been doing this for 11 and 12 years. No more. They got five years. New law. Started in July. And I think that's reasonable. It's more than reasonable. So I'm ready for questions. If I can't answer them, I'll make something up. And just because I got gray hair, you'll believe me. Any questions? Mr. Angle? What's the study going to cost the county? Zero. We're not going to. Hey, we don't need to be dumb. And some counties actually go do that, which just blows my mind. Well, we're going to get somebody else's opinion. I said, well, go for it, brother. It'll cost you nothing. Sir? Mr. Rogers. Bob. Always Bob. No Mr. Basher, and just Bob. So you just said that the study's free. Besides that and a committee, what specifics should we be looking for to help you out? Between now and then, bring that committee together and let me come down and do an educational class. I've got a class just designed for that to introduce you to jail and how they run the jail and why they have to do what they do. You don't know they have to give an inmate stamps twice a week, do you? Why would you have to know that, right, if he's indigent? You don't know that they have to feed an inmate meals twice a day, not more than 12 hours apart, but if he's a working trustee, he gets that bologna sandwich, right? So I want you to know all the things and why, and there's nothing. I can tell you something. It's not rocket science. And the size of this jail is not rocket science. You just saw up there an example of what your incarceration rate is, right? So this is who you're locking up for a thousand. I need to know what your population is going to be in 2035. So I'm going to put that on the block and I'm going to move it out. Then I'm going to take the way you're doing business here and I'll tell you what, this drug task force for your sheriff does not play games. I've been coming out here a long time and when I came in, when he took over, I saw it. I mean, it just, well, I'm going to look to see who's locked up according to that population and that's going to tell me how many beds you need. That wasn't done when this was built over here. You know, somebody might have just fell out of the sky and said, build 110 beds, that's what we can afford. And it's lasted you since 2000, what, 10? Lasted you a really long time. At the end of the day, it might just be time to add on. And that's where you're at. You just need to take that picture I had up there and everybody, we've already kind of done that. Can it go here? Can it go there? Yeah, bring it, just me in for a class. I do that with the counties and it has been so productive and so helpful because you're going to get asked, why can't we do this? Of course, he's doing everything, your sheriff's doing everything he can do. Your courts are doing everything. Well, they are now. We leave it at that. Because when I came down here the first time, I wasn't happy with what I saw. And we do the study, the courts are going to get in, they're going to be in there. When Jim Hart does this study, it's going to talk about programs, it's going to talk about probation, it's going to talk about everything. And then it's going to look at that scope and that scale about how your county's growing and where it's going to be 30 down. Do you want to build after 30 years? Y'all make that decision, I don't. You want to put a Band-Aid on it? I don't recommend that. Band-Aids come off. But you'll have the information in front of you. Meanwhile, I'll be educating you and having these classes and showing you. There'll be a lot of verbiage in there that's going to be talked about. You need to understand what it is. These correctional people, and I'm one of them, we'll get up here and say things that we just assume people understand more. You don't speak my jargon. What do you do for a living? I'm tired of 25 years of law enforcement. Oh, you're in law enforcement? You work over here? No, I work in Williamson. Oh, okay. All right. I'm part of the problem. You know they're building the jail in Williamson, right? Can you tell them how much it's going to cost? I have no idea. I died a few months ago. I know exactly what it's going to cost. I'm afraid to ask. What I think and what I've been told is $650 million and it's 440 beds. It's not just a jail. It's going to have an EVAC course. It's going to have a juvenile facility, so it's not just a 400-bed jail. It's a big operation. But I'm pretty sure they didn't have a lot of trouble worrying about where they got the money, right? Not over there. And they had that one percent. I was shocked because I was comparing Rutherford to them. Rutherford's in this process. So, I mean, it never ends. The programs are the answer. And again, if you just build it, they will come. Why would you not have a program, right? So, Harold Bass Sr. had a program. I bet your daddy had a program too, right? He had a program. I didn't go to jail. I mean, I knew the difference of right and wrong. I still got some of the lumps to prove it too. When I got caught doing something wrong, I was punished. Yes, Mr. Pops. Mr. Mayor, I served on the board for TCI for four years. And I know we've had a board of control meeting in December. It would be great for us to be able to show them the border control, the magical progress. The big group didn't have those names by the December meeting. I just wanted to mention that to you. It would help us convince them to... He can have that next week. He can have that by the end of the week. He can just use this That's a great gift. Thank you for that. And you're in workshop so you can't take a vote. Are y'all in a workshop or here? Can you take a vote in here? Can we do the study so I can call the mayor and tell him to do it? That'll have to go through full court. We can approve here, but it would still have to go to full court at the end of the month. Motion made to work on the study. Seconded by Mr. Johnson. The motion was made by Tony. They'll do a roll call vote on that. All right, so any other discussion? Is there a suggested number of people to be on this committee? This is, as I understand it right now, this is your public safety committee, right? And there's 14 county commissions? I usually work with committees smaller, but I'm good with this. I'm good with it. I'm good with it. Usually eight or nine. Here's the beautiful thing about it is in lieu of a jail, so there is a thing called a criminal justice committee that's used throughout the country, right? Tennessee's used it and you can use it in lieu of that, but it just has to have county officials on it. My CCP can have private citizens on it because you're all just acting as a steering committee. So the one I have at home, I actually, in my hometown, I live in Henderson, Tennessee. I got a pretty good little drive home. Y'all pray for me because it looked like a drunk Indian on a bicycle built that road between here and there, but I'll get there. But anyway, it's a little curvy. But we built our jail in 2015 and we had 125 beds laid out. And the magistrate says I want a courtroom. Okay, so we cut the beds off and added the courtroom. So we got two nice courtrooms. And now we're at about 130 prisoners. We're paying somebody else to keep our prisoners. And I'm going to have to add on to my jail at home. I'm working with a committee and they put other people on that committee than our county commissioners. They brought people in that have some knowledge. And so you can do that. If there's somebody in your community, mental health wise, that wants to be on it, a public defender can be on this. A judge can be on this. See where I'm going. I actually have had judges that were chairman of those committees and they regretted that. But no, they loved it. They actually had the general assistant judge on those committees. They're the ones sending them to that jail. So you don't want to be in crisis management. That's a term we use in our business and you're like that far from. We're helping you move inmates. Jeff reached out to you. You've got to, we have to, we've got to move, right? So we'll do anything we can to help. And the sheriff worked on it too. Did a little promising back and forth and got the guy off the murder count. But we do have the motion on the floor. So I'm going to go back to Ed on getting the, going in and getting the study done. So all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, motion passed. Study's being done. Sheriff and mayor, I guess y'all work together on committee choice. Yes, I'm going to go back to Mr. Pickett's comment. If y'all have any preference on what direction you'd like me to go, I would suggest y'all make that tonight. Otherwise, I'm going to get with the sheriff. I'm just going to go back here and we will, I will now, if y'all don't give me a direction, I'm going to deal with it and the sheriff sees to it. All right, any discussion on committee? All right, any discussion on committee? Are y'all, are you interested in doing this committee as? I'll get with him and I will send a message out. Okay. Just assume you'll all be on it until I tell you otherwise. Is there any other questions for Mr. Bass? Mr. Bass, thank you so much for your time. Thank y'all. Thank you so much and TCI is going to commit our time and resources seeing you're successful and we're going to help protect that certification. Thank you, sir. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Sheriff. Thank you. I can tell you this is the first time I went before the TCI committee to see if we were going to be able to keep our certification. Chief was there with me. The folks that went before me, it was bad. I mean, they had been on a plan of action for a long time and they had pretty much got to the point where the committee was done and they certified them and took our stuff like right then. And I looked over to him and I said, this is going to go really bad really quick for us. But like I said, Bob is there to explain our situation, what's going on. And it went, it went pretty quick. Chief, you got a question? Yep. Matt's back here. And Mr. Box was actually the gentleman with TCI that stood up for us and asked him to grant our state of execution, I guess you could say. And they agreed with his words. So with him asking us to get that community together by December, hopefully we can do that. And that way, once we appear in front of them, hopefully Mr. Box will do the same that he did last year and stand up. This is Matt. Matt, you want to stand up and introduce yourself real quick? You guys scared me at that last board meeting. I could tell by looking at your face. A little bit. If you could hang on a while, I got something for you real fast. You got a what? A warrant. Not before. I better get out of town before they find one. And thank y'all guys. Thank you, sir. You be careful. He's came in about the camera system. I'm going to hand you out a piece of paper. The first one is the quote that he had sent me. The last page is the previous quote. As you can tell, it's been about a three month time frame. About four months. And the price difference on it went up about $7,000. So this is one of those things that will continue to rise. I asked him to come and talk with you guys. If y'all guys had any questions about installs or any clarification on whether or not this is something that we need to do, or if we can integrate some of his system with some of our old system. Any questions you have for him, please? Please feel free. I'll open up the floor for any questions for Mr. Matt. What was the $7,000 increase? $7,000 increase came in. It was mostly in hard drives. So with everything going on with technology and the shortages and tariffs and everything else, the hard drive increase to get the 90 days worth of storage that you guys really need to have on your system. Really need to have on site. That has increased. And so most of that has been in the storage side. Do you foresee any more increases? Yes. Things are everything from copper to the NVIDIA chips that are going in these, to just the motherboards that are going in these servers. And then the storage is still going up. So they're saying that we could see another 3% in February on hard drives. Is part of this all new rewiring and everything? Is that part of the price? It is. Okay. So in the future, if you're going to expand the jailhouse, is that wiring still going to be available? It is. So right now you guys, for the majority of the jail, is run on coax. Everything would be moved to cat six. So cat six is not going away. And that was a question I had again, because again, we don't know the future. We don't, we don't know the future of the jail. So the big question I had, and I told him one of the reasons why we had put this off, because we just didn't know. We didn't know if we were going to have to build a different facility. This crazy old man was going to come in and tell us, we need to build 19 stories or whatever. So I told him I didn't want to invest that money into that and then turn around and lose it. And he has advised me that the hardware can be moved out of this building. If we do have to move for some reason, the only thing that can't move is the wiring that I'm understanding. Because again, you're liable to make it 10 feet. And if you move it to a new building, you'll need 12 feet. It would cost more to move the wiring.
And we just put new wiring in the new cell. Yes. John. If we expand, how much extra would we need? So instead of moving the jail, we were just like, we have to go five or less. So in this case, there's enough storage space with the servers on this to get 90 days worth of storage. We've got a set right now at 80 cameras that covers everything, just the center and the jail. But that gives you the ability to grow into 100 as well. So if it needed to expand, it would just be maybe a network switch, and some more cable, and some additional cameras. But you would have the extra space to expand if you needed to. The main thing for stuff would be there. And then it would all depend on, too, what kind of expansion were we doing. Are we doing a dorm expansion? Are we doing the single-cell expansions? So that would all count as well, whether we would need one camera to cover that area, or we need three cameras to cover that. What's the warranty like on the cameras? So the warranty on the cameras, you're looking at five years on all the cameras. You're also looking at five years on the servers. Now, if you could also do a tenure on that, that, again, would cost more. But there is a tenure warranty option as well. And I'm saying that's probably just parts, no labor? Correct. OK. Now, if something went down and you needed it serviced, we're here, and we would service it 24 hours a day. Our company is in Eaton County. Most of us live on the east side, but we are here. And currently, right now, the camera system we operate, they're out of Alabama. So if we call them and say, hey, we've got a camera now. We need you to replace it, they're not going to like it. But we'll have somebody up there in two months doing a service call. That, in itself, is great. Yeah, that's one reason. And again, this would be something that would have to go out to be it. Matt had put this together just so we could have some general knowledge of what we're looking at. I don't want to come here and tell you, hey, we need to replace our camera system, and it's going to cost us $50,000. And everybody's like, OK. And the moment we get a bid, they're like, oh, no, it's $200,000. Or I don't want to tell you it's $500,000, and then it comes below that. But that is, just like you said, one of the great benefits. If we do have an issue, we have somebody here local. And if you don't get out of bed to come help us, the sheriff has the order to go get him out of bed. I do want to make mention that this camera system is not your normal, everyday camera system that you can pull off a shelf somewhere or go into a grocery store and just get, or an IT store and get. This system here is AI-powered. It has an NVIDIA chip that's built into it. And so it's not just for security, but it also provides in-depth data for the sheriff and his team. And it also quickens the response time. So you can build out the individual pieces if they want something. If they want some knowledge really quickly that something's happened, it'll send them the messages so that they can respond. If there's something that happened three days ago, but they just heard about it, they can go in and type in, like they're using ChatGPT, say I'm looking for an inmate that used something on somebody else. And in about 30 seconds, he's got all the footage he needs. He doesn't have to spend two or three hours looking through footage to see what happened. So I do want to make mention of that as well, because it's not just safety. It's data and response time. If an inmate comes in and says, hey, somebody assaulted me. They hit me with a broom. I'm like, OK, who did it? They're like, well, we're not, I don't want to say, for retaliation. I go right in that camera system and I can say, show me anybody that was holding a broom between this time. And it'll detect broom handles, and it'll throw out five people. You get a lot of janitors, but. Yeah, you know, whoever touched a broom handle during those times, that camera will pick it up. Our biggest thing is the retention. The way he has this mapped out right now, we have a six month retention. 90 days. That's actually 90 days. Oh, this one's 90 days? Yeah, 90 days. To go from 90 days, though, to 180 days only costs $2,000 right now. Because we're just upgrading two of the hard drives and two of the servers. So it's not going that much more at the moment, but. So we'll be looking to push it up to six months, something of that nature. Everybody's heard the saying, a picture's worth 1,000 words. Well, in a lawsuit, a video's worth millions of dollars. And we can solve those very quickly. When somebody files a claim or something like that, we can pull that tape, send it right over to the insurance company, and they'll knock it down just like that right there. That actually brings up another good point, because the system also allows you to create cases. So you can take all of the footage, create a case for it. Then you can put any files that you've built and written to go with that for insurance, and you can put it in there. That is stored indefinitely. So unless you go in and delete that, you'll never lose it. And you can send that via text message or email or however you want to send that from that system directly. And if you guys want, Matt can set up some time to do a demo on the camera system, if you guys would like to see how that operates. Again, that's totally up to you. And you did talk with the, the company is willing to zero percent, is that still on the table? I know it was a couple of- That is still on the table. One thing they're willing to offer is a zero percent financing on a five-year deal. So we can take this and break it up into five payments, basically, once a year, I'm assuming. So just want to bring that. This is something we really need quickly to get under control. What do you need from us? This is kind of thinking forward. Is this tonight or just mainly awareness still? It's awareness, but this is something we need to, when I got the new updated quote, I noticed that the price is moving and it's going to continue to move. Is it something that we can look at? I guess we have options with the five-year finance, zero interest plan, go ahead and looking at doing that. Like I said, I know we can set aside some money and then we'll put it in for a grant right now. I guess one more question is, if we do the five-year zero percent interest, we secure this grant in six months, can we just go ahead and pay the whole thing off? The finance company that we use, there's no pre-payment penalty. They have the ability to finance up to $350 million, so they would be willing to work with us. With that, which I know many of y'all have heard me speak about the grants and then also the nicotine pouches that revenue's coming in, can we look at going ahead and moving forward with putting this out for bid and see what we can do about pushing forward with it? I got a question about the zero percent financing. We talked to Crystal, because I know there was something that we were going to do. There was going to be zero percent financing, but the state wouldn't let us do it or something to that. I just want to make sure she's in the loop on that. I'm not 100% sure. Oh, okay, I knew it was something. Yeah, yeah, so I don't want us to, I mean, that sounds great, and I'd be all on board with that, like making a motion, let's get it going. Those that walked through the jail last time, you can tell that those cameras need replacing ASAP. And Matt, I don't know if this is still on the table, this is something that you had told me a couple months back, and with prices changes, was the panic buttons? Yes, so the panic button system was at 10,000, but it does work with the camera system as well. And is that something the company's willing to still put in, or? Yes, it would just be something that we would add to the existing, and we can put it in at the same time. Nope. So, let's talk. Yes, that was the question. Yeah, that's something we're non-compliant with right now with the court system. So, by the next meeting, we can have a breakdown of this is what it will cost for the next five years. This is how your budget looks right now, and then maybe even a little bit further on the ground. What's the cost increase to upgrade to 10-year warranty from a five-year warranty? So, I would have, don't make me go and tell you, I'm not actually saying what we've got in front of you. I would have to get with the vendor on that and see. Okay, I'd be curious to know. And the only reason why I'd be hesitant about the 10-year instead of the five-year is you don't know what's going to change. Like, the camera system we have now, of course, the parts we get, we're gonna have to go to the old parts. They don't configure to the day standards. So, that would be, if it's something extremely expensive, that would be something I would cost you against, just for the fact that we don't know what the future's gonna look like. Technology changes. I'm not saying we're gonna caution a 10-year just because industry standards says to replace your cameras every five years. So, from us, it's, y'all are good with, and I think everybody here's good with this, y'all having the next meeting, having that laid out on what that looks like on the plan. We're not approving anything yet. We're just talking and trying to get it. If we can get with Crystal in the meantime, too, so we'll have that. We'll have that clarified up and be ready to rock and roll. Awesome. Got any questions on that? The panic buttons was another 10,000 on top. Correct, but the panic button is a different system that doesn't work with the camera systems. So, if somebody in the courthouse was to hit the panic button because of something happening, that would then go to dispatch with the camera footage as well. You would have footage of what's happening plus the actual dispatch, so that they could let the officers know what they're actually getting into when they got there. But it was a big 10,000 on top of this? Correct. Okay, I thought that was it. Yeah, right now, if you hit the panic button, it'd call Miss Sheila Briggs. Goes way over there. She'll come to get you. I have a question. Does your company include, as far as like, like with the AI agent licensure, is that in-house within your company? Is that a subsidiary of somebody else? The AI technology, essentially? Is that directly from your company? Is that a program from something else? Is everything here directly from y'all as far as things possibly changing? So, the AI agent piece is part of the manufacturer's, manufacturer's software. Correct. Yeah, so all of that is built into the software. Something else to keep in mind, this is HIPAA compliant, everything's on the edge, nothing's in the cloud, so everything is stored and the software is here. So, that's, that made me think about that. But, yes, that is from the manufacturer. We are one of the few nationwide certified AI agents, installers for these guys. And we handle about 45% of their support across the country. So, we do have the certifications. Any other questions on the camera system? All right, thank you, Matt, very much for coming tonight. Thanks, Chief, Sheriff. One more thing, what were you gonna talk about? No, that was it, I was just gonna bring that up, too. Yeah, we can bring it up, but I got one more thing. I don't have a year or VIN number, I don't know what it said in the packet, but somebody was rushing me to get my packet turned in. But we will be transferring it from one of our, our Forge floors that we're gonna be passing on to a surplus, we will transfer that over to EMA for them to use over there for different stuff, so. Need a vote on that? I like the job to me. Need a vote on that? Yeah, I kinda would, because we do EMS. Yeah, entertain a motion? Seconded by, so Tony had a motion, seconded by Ethan. Any discussion on that? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? So the other thing we're gonna talk about, we got some stuff we're gonna show you, is, man, it's been a busy month. We've got a lot going on, and so one of the things we were able to do is talk with Jordan at Landfill, was secure, one thing he'd been asking for if we'd run across, and actually it's needed, Pete, we discussed making sure we had a lot of, not a lot, but stuff we need for debris management if we have more disasters like we did. This goes back, some people in here know, Jim knows, I worked with Jeff Long back in 2010 during the floods, and I remember him saying, after the floods, was, we were not prepared, and the sheriff's office will never be in that situation again. That was running through my mind during the fire, is we were not prepared, and that's never gonna happen again. We started reaching out through our DR remote program to get equipment. During the ice storm, it was too dangerous for County Highway to come out. We had fatalities, we had people frozen to death. They couldn't come out and help clear roads, so we did it ourselves by hand, and the people in the community. Me and Jesse made, I don't know how many trips ever, up and down every hill, trying to get communications up and going, and we talked about it and said, if there's a way that we can get equipment that we can use during emergencies, then that's what we're gonna do. And it's at minimal cost to the county. And we've been very fortunate to secure, right now, several skid steers, a rubber tire loader, a dump truck, a box truck, we didn't have no way to haul supplies during the disaster. And again, like I said, if we can get this stuff for minimal cost, then we're not gonna be in the situation that we were last year. Like I said, we were in bad situations. EMS, we can't even get an ambulance to some of these locations. And we were on our own. So if we, as a sheriff's office, can get some of this stuff, then that's gonna help benefit our community, and that's what we're gonna try to do. Compactors, let's see, you wanna pass those out? Yeah, there we go, I got it. So, Jordan had asked, and I said, Pete had asked, because we didn't have anything for debris management. I mean, I don't know if a lot of people in here know, we rented skid steers for a month, we rented track holes, two months, track holes, and of course, we didn't have what we needed. The compactors come up on our DRMO, and I don't know if y'all seen the, once he handed it out, it's a newer model, it has a cab on it, but it's got, what, 11,000 hours or something like that? One of the compactors we picked up is identical to that, has 291 hours on it. It doesn't even look like the blade has ever been in the dirt. We got it for free, we just had to go pick it up. We went to Indianapolis, and, is that where we're at? Yeah, Indianapolis. Actually, we had to pick up two of them. The problem is, we never know when it's gonna take place, so it came up, it's like, hey, man, we can get these for free, that's $200,000 a piece. I said, man, let's put in for both of them, and maybe we'll get one. We got both of them. Well, then we had another problem. We don't have a trailer to haul it. So, we started making phone calls, trying to find a trailer we could even haul the thing back on, because we're about $47,000 a piece. Made several calls, talked to Pete, Pete was making calls as well, trying to find someone. Well, I had to thank Matthew Barnhill, Barnhill Excavation, I called Matthew, and said, this is what I got, do you have a trailer we can borrow? And he said, absolutely, come get it. The problem with that is, our truck that we have does not have hydraulics on it. This truck has to have hydraulics to operate correctly. So, we hooked the truck up, we drove to Indianapolis, they set the loader on the trailer for us, we strapped it down, we drove back to Matthew's, we had to pull his truck right beside ours to hook the hydraulics up, to lower the truck down, and then we pull up together, both trucks, to unload the first one. And then we have to hook the truck back up, and then we go back to Indianapolis, pick up the second one, we've done this in two days, back to Indianapolis, pick up the second one, come back, we go to the landfill, we stop and get Matthew's truck to bring it to the landfill to unload it, and what happens, we blow two cylinders on Matthew's trailer and we can't get it off the trailer. So, we end up being stuck with one at the landfill and one at Matthew's lot of these in his tore up trailer. He said, man, you let us use it, we'll pay to have it fixed. And he said, nope, don't worry about it. He said, I appreciate what y'all are doing. He said, well, I'll take care of it. And I said, we're gonna get this other one moved as soon as we can. Again, we was in a situation, we didn't have a trailer to haul this other piece of equipment back up to Central. And, you know, I'm a firm believer in the good Lord takes care of me and things just happen and he watches out for me. A few weeks after that, Mike calls, he's on the DRMO and goes, hey, there's a drop deck, low boy trailer, everything what we need just popped up and you may put in for it. Absolutely. Where's it at? Tacoma, Washington. And I said, well, we're not driving to Tacoma and it being a not worth the drive. So Mike gets to do some work, lived up there. We get him on the base. He went and inspected the trailer. He said, man, it's good to go. It looks like it's gonna be a good one. So me and him headed up to three weeks ago to Tacoma, Washington, picked up a trailer and come back. So now, the Sheriff's office is gonna look at the truck, the trailer, if there's any.
Anything that comes up that we need to use a 50-ton trailer, a triaxial trailer with a pony motor, has hydraulics on it, we don't have to add hydraulics to the truck. And I'm saying it is exactly what we've been looking for for years. And now we can move anything we need to ourselves and not have to worry about borrowing stuff. If you sold that trailer tomorrow, how it sits, you can get $45,000, $50,000 out of it. We've already started repainting it and redoing it, so probably in the next month and a half it'll be close to a $120,000 trailer. I just gave you those printouts on the back. It shows what that machine is currently selling for. Again, it's four years newer than the one we have, but it has 11,000 hours on it, and ours only has 200-something. So now the county is in possession of two machines that will potentially bring somewhere in the neighborhood of $250,000 to $300,000. But it's my understanding, I don't see Jordan here, but he wants to keep one of them. So I think he has been hammering at the sheriff. It's been doing real great with the debris management they have out there. As they bring in whatever wood people haul in, that thing just shreds it right to pieces. I was actually shocked the first day we had it there and got it loaded. He had the debris, I guess we're basically dropping stuff off, but it was about an acre almost, it seemed like, four stories high. I was like, oh my goodness. He goes, yeah, because usually we're going to be running around trying to compress it as much as we can, then we bury it. I went back the next day, and that was gone. And you could pick up what was left there, it was shredded. It was like nothing was left in this town. So I think it's going to really help the county out in multiple ways. Like the sheriff said, our biggest goal is during that winter storm, we were not prepared. And again, there's just no way to get 100% prepared, but we were cutting our way in, having to tow people out. About a mile of that, you get tired of it quickly. So our guys were wearing out super fast, and something else was popping up. Well, now they've got to spend another three or four hours trying to cut their way into something. These machines are going to cut that down. Like I said, hopefully by the end of this winter, we will have four or five skid steers that when we know something's coming, we can move one skid steer over here, one skid steer over here, and we can have them spread throughout the county, and then put our guys on them, and let's start moving. Let's help as many people as we can so we don't have that delay. I think one thing we are looking for is a Mini-X with a thumb. I think that will do tremendous help in some of that stuff. But like I said, if it's free and it's going to benefit us and we can utilize it, we're going after it. Again, if I could have put y'all in the car with us during that winter, y'all would be all about it too. So like I said, any questions that you guys have, y'all can always call me any time, call the sheriff. I think this is a great program, and it's a way to put resources throughout our county. It doesn't cost us anything but time and fuel. Again, if we wanted to sell one piece, which we're eligible after one year, we can sell this machinery. But again, all we have in its fuel at this point in time, we'll keep rocking and rolling. This program will be self-abstaining next year. So right now we're having to put a little bit in our diesel line item, and you'll see it move around a lot. But after next year, this program will self-abstain itself. So initially, before we really started this program and, like I said, we reached out, some guys we know that donated a semi-truck to Williamson went out there and we reached out to them, and that's where they donated the Kenworth down here for us. Before that, we did not have – the only thing we had to pay on diesel was the generator. I think it had a $500 budget or something that was filled up. Once a year, we put diesel in it and pretty much all we've done. So we did increase that line item. But, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't want – you're a construction guy. What's the skid steer cost or anything? I don't process that. That's way above my budget. But, you know, we moved that from like $500, I think, to like $10,000. But with that, like I said, we probably got half a million dollars' worth of equipment right now. So I think it's a pretty good tradeoff. Well, it definitely goes without saying how much we appreciate the work you guys have done for that and being able to get that stuff for us. And if you didn't know, you cannot sleep in the sleeper of that truck while it's moving. I can testify to that. And I'll tell everybody here, do not travel with the sheriff. He don't believe in stopping, and it's just gas station, and that's it. So nothing luxurious. It's hot dogs, and that's it. Nothing luxury. Any questions for them? Not a question. I was just going to make a point on this compactor. The benefit for the soft waste is huge because we're running out of space for our class, was it three or whatever, like the debris and stuff. So this helps to compact it so we can put more in the same area. So we're saving and extending the life of the current solid waste. So thanks. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, the equipment, yes. Our plan is to keep using that program. We're actually in for some more stuff right now, which actually is very small. But there are robots we use for SWAT in Williamson County, track robots. You can pick them up, move them. They're about $200,000 a piece. And we're in for two of those right now to actually start. They have arms on them. They can turn doors or whatever. They're pretty cool. So they have a lot of different stuff that comes on that, like I said, that really will benefit us. And, like I said, we're going to keep looking. And, like I said, I may be moving some money, like I said, if we move it from the impound lot or whatever over into diesel. Like I said, I'm going to try to do my best. I mean, hopefully most everybody here knows me not coming and saying, hey, I need $5,000 more from the general fund to put in diesel. I'll pull out the impound lot money and put it in diesel so I don't have to ask for that. We can take care of that ourselves. Any other questions for them? All right. Thank you, fellas. Thanks, y'all. All right. Moving on. Thank you all so much. I know it's a long night. But with what we're talking about with health and safety, it's, unfortunately, there's just a lot going on that requires our attention. So thank you all so much for sticking it out with me and getting through all this. And we'll have some more information coming. Any old business we need to discuss? Hearing none, any new business we need to discuss? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion for adjournment. Motion to adjourn.